One of my most rewarding jobs recently was helping an older couple get their tech sorted out. Although not gaming machines, I was more than happy to assist as I had some free slots in my schedule. Doing this job raised some interesting questions - so I’ve decided to share it.
The lovely Mrs C first contacted us to have a look at a laptop with a suspected dead battery or overheating issue. Upon inspecting her laptop I noticed that it was on Windows 7. Attempting repair would be uneconomical and the laptop was unsafe to use due to Windows 7 being EOL in January 2023. Although we could put Windows 10 on it still, the cost of repairing and re-installing wouldn’t be worth it (also the fact that Windows 10 doesn’t have long left until EOL either). Refurbished Windows 11 laptops can easily be picked up for a decent price so long as you don’t need blazing performance.
I advised Mrs C of this. She told me it was her husband's laptop, who wasn't very well at the time. It’s extremely useful for him to have a portable system that can be used in bed. She also told me that he also has a desktop PC of a similar age to the laptop. I checked with my favorite suppliers and provided Mrs. C with some estimates for supplying a refurbished Windows 11 laptop and desktop. I also offered a home visit to set up the new devices for them and make sure they’re comfortable with Windows 11. Mrs C said she’d have a think and get back to me.
A while later Mrs C called me to say they had bought a new Windows 11 desktop & laptop and that they would like to take me up on my offer of assisting them with setup. Upon seeing the new devices my heart sank. The laptop was older than the one they were replacing and the desktop wasn’t much better either. Both were sold as “Windows 11”, and “i7” machines. The i7 in the laptop is the first generation of i7 mobile from 2009. The i7 in the desktop, is a little better, a 4790 from 2014. I have no issue with using older devices, I’m all for saving money and going refurbished, but these “Windows 11” machines are a scam. Let me explain.
The Windows 11 system requirements ask for an 8th gen. Intel CPU or 2nd gen. Ryzen desktop processor or newer (with a few exceptions). This is due to the requirement to have a TPM 2.0 security chip. Microsoft provides no guarantee as to what security updates unsupported devices running Windows 11 will receive. Running Windows 11 on an unsupported device yourself and knowing the risks is no issue at all but selling ancient devices, at a premium price, just because they have an i7 and “Windows 11” is not OK. It’s a scam in my book.
I advised Mr and Mrs C of this and asked them if the devices were within their return period on eBay. The laptop was, but not the desktop. We decided to leave the desktop for now and consider swapping it out in a few months once they had gotten used to Windows 11. They did however opt to return the laptop. Upon inspecting the laptop, I found that the disk drive was faulty. Mr C specifically chose a laptop with a disk drive to install one of his old CD-based games (which amazingly was still working on Windows 11!). This was a nice easy “excuse” to return the laptop rather than getting into a possible argument with the seller as to how not-OK the unsupported Windows 11 install was. Oh, how I wish it was that easy!
I helped Mr and Mrs C start the eBay return. As soon as we submitted the return, their landline phone rang. It was the seller of the laptop! (Business seller I should mention) I asked if I could speak with them and was handed the phone. Despite explaining that I’m an IT professional, he requested I go through all the same troubleshooting steps with the disk drive that I already had done (I get it though, I’ve worked in support before, and you have to make 100% sure the end user has done what they say they have!). While doing this we discovered that a DVD would work, but not the CD. I explained to the seller that the CD was working fine on the desktop and had absolutely no noteworthy scratches. He wasn’t having any of it! He just kept saying that if a DVD works, it proves that the drive is fine. I explained how a common fault of disk drives is that they stop reading CDs before they stop reading DVDs. This was especially common in the Playstation 2 era, where there was a mix of CD and DVD-based games for the same platform. The CD games would stop working, but DVD games would be fine. The seller still wasn't having any of it.
Eventually, I gave up trying to explain that the disk drive was still very likely to be faulty and just asked if we could return it anyway, as it shouldn’t have Windows 11 on it. This is when the seller doubled down. He made up that there is a special version of Windows 11 that doesn’t need the same hardware requirements! I then informed him a bit more about my background and how I’ve sold hundreds of computers myself on eBay when we used to trade as Pixel Builds, and I know all the ins and outs of Windows installations, as well as all the eBay protections and processes. Unbelievably, he still held his ground! It was extremely difficult to maintain professionalism during this call as he kept making up this stuff - but I was speaking on behalf of my customers, so I had to maintain my chill!
The seller said we had two options. Either return the laptop for a partial refund or keep it. His view of the “partial refund” was to cover his postage costs and eBay fees. I told him this was not true, as eBay reimburses fees on returns. He still wasn’t having any of it! It was quite amusing as I don’t think he expected to be chatting with an IT professional!
I got bored of going in circles talking with the seller so I eventually hung up and advised the couple to proceed with the return as normal, still maintaining that the disk drive was faulty, and to let me know if they don’t get all their money back after returning it. I returned to base and went looking for a suitable replacement laptop with one of my suppliers. This time a proper, fully supported Windows 11 machine.
It took me a while to find a decently priced system as one of the requirements for Mr and Mrs C was a large, 17.3” screen, which is quite a lot harder to come by on the refurbished market. I managed to find a nice HP laptop with a touchscreen which I figured would be a nice extra. When it arrived however I found they had made a common mistake with the description. It had a 1TB HDD instead of the 1TB SSD as described. Contacting the seller, we agreed on a partial refund so I could grab a replacement SSD and fit it myself. A few days and a Windows reinstall later, the laptop was ready. Oh, and I opted for an external disk drive for them as it wasn’t very expensive.
I delivered the new laptop to Mr and Mrs C and helped them set it up to their liking. While I was there they showed me that the seller of the crappy laptop had sent them a partial refund, taking £80 off the price! They made up some rubbish about their operating costs with eBay fees and postage. I was shocked - I didn’t expect the seller to push a partial refund! I had assumed it was merely a threat on the phone to put us off returning it. I advised the couple to start an eBay case and helped them word a response. I made sure they were happy with the new laptop and left. An hour later I received a text from Mrs C saying that eBay had looked at the case and refunded them the full amount for the returned laptop and that they were chuffed! What a satisfying result.
I felt great having saved them a decent chunk of money with what’s honestly a scam however it did make me think. The older generation is incredibly vulnerable in the world of technology. I’m certain that if I hadn't informed them about eBay rules and assisted them with the eBay case, they would have accepted the partial refund, and the seller would have been up £80 (ish, their only loss would be postage costs). How often does this sort of thing happen, I wonder? It’s very frustrating to think about.
One thing that does spring to mind which I hadn’t thought of until now is that Microsoft seriously needs to make it a lot more obvious when a device is end of life and is no longer safe to use. This should, in my opinion, be a very large and impossible-to-ignore watermark not dissimilar to the “Activate Windows” reminder. Potentially this should be a legal requirement for all operating systems and key software. Do iOS devices have such a thing I wonder?
A quick eBay search reveals the scale of the problem. The entire refurbished laptop and PC market is full of devices that have had Windows 11 put onto them, bypassing the TPM 2.0 requirements with some tweaking, while being ancient devices far from meeting the hardware requirements. The same sellers are of course milking the confusing Intel branding too. Where everyone thinks i7 = good. I’m forever explaining the branding to customers. I explain how a brand new Intel i3 will destroy the performance of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and just about 8th Gen. i7 processors. You have to compare the exact CPU and effectively ignore the i3, i5, i7, and i9 unless you’re comparing within the same generation. An analogy I use is that it’s like comparing a Bugatti from the 1930s to a brand-new Ford Fiesta ST. Yes, it’s a Bugatti, but the more modern Fiesta is of course faster.
Should eBay step in and ban the sale of Windows 11 on unsupported hardware? At least business sellers? Food for thought. I’ve got some content ideas to explore this further. Watch this space!
great customer service, he's smooth as a crocodile's forehead